> ## Content Index > Fetch the complete content index at: https://thechocolatelife.com/llms.txt > Use this file to discover other available public pages before exploring further. # David Nilsen Bean to Barstool Part 2 | #PodSaveChocolate Ep57 - URL: https://thechocolatelife.com/david-nilsen-bean-to-barstool-part-2-podsavechocolate-ep57/ - Published: 2024-07-07T18:50:17.000Z - Updated: 2024-07-11T17:42:10.000Z - Description: Episode 57 of #PodSaveChocolate features a return interview with David – after I appeared as a guest on his Bean to Barstool podcast. We’ll be talking about definitions for craft, our approaches to tasting and pairing, and more. - Author: Clay Gordon - Tags: PodSaveChocolate, Live Stream **When and Where to Watch** 🗓️ The LIVE episode starts at 10:00 AM ****PDT**/****MST** (11:00 MDT, 12:00 CDT, 13:00 EDT), on Tuesday, July 9th, 2024\. ‼️ ****Join the conversation LIVE!** Watch on YouTube, LinkedIn, or Facebook to comment and ask questions live during the episode. [David Nilsen Bean to Barstool Redux | #PodSaveChocolate Ep57Episode 57 OverviewAnyone who has followed PodSaveChocolate (and TheChocolateLifeLIVE before it), knows that I care a great deal about the words and phrases…![](https://www.youtube.com/s/desktop/1d05d8a6/img/favicon_144x144.png)YouTube![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/D7HDxUM0KK4/maxresdefault_live.jpg)](https://youtube.com/live/D7HDxUM0KK4?ref=thechocolatelife.com) Click to watch on YouTube in a new tab or window. Please subscribe (free!) to the [@PodSaveChocolate YouTube channel](https://www.youtube.com/@podsavechocolate/featured?ref=thechocolatelife.com), like this video, comment, and share to help grow the #PSC community. [Watch and comment on LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/claygordon%5Flavidacocoa-thechocolatelife-cacao-activity-7215787600421249024-9Qyw?utm%5Fsource=share&utm%5Fmedium=member%5Fdesktop) [Watch and comment on Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/events/1467750167223552)\= --- ## **Episode 57 Overview** Anyone who has followed PodSaveChocolate (and TheChocolateLifeLIVE before it), knows that I care a great deal about the words and phrases we use because words inform beliefs, beliefs inform actions, and actions have consequences. When it comes to communicating the value proposition for specialty chocolate (which I prefer to craft and bean-to-bar) agreeing on what the phrase means, even if it’s just for the sake of conversation, means the people who are party to the conversation aren’t talking past one another. > Craft beer and craft chocolate ***both*** have definitional challenges. In Part 1 of this two-part series, I was a guest on David’s Bean to Barstool podcast, which was published last Tuesday, July 2nd. As I was a guest on David’s show, I was the interviewee, following David’s questioning lead. [Defining Craft Chocolate and Craft Beer with Clay Gordon — Bean to BarstoolIn this episode David Nilsen talks with Clay Gordon, one of the most respected names in the world of craft chocolate, to discuss the meaning of craft, how the term’s usage and meaning differ in the beer and chocolate worlds, how tasting and judging have influenced beer and chocolate differently, and![](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5ea250985a9d5e5bf1c2c8d1/1611516742570-1NKP3XX3PQGEKAWYYU57/favicon.ico?format=100w)Bean to BarstoolDavid Nilsen![](http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5ea250985a9d5e5bf1c2c8d1/t/6683f677594af16976a883f0/1719924348037/Hacienda+Rioalambi+20240609+(85)+cropped.JPG?format=1500w)](https://www.beantobarstool.com/episodes/episode-83-clay-gordon?ref=thechocolatelife.com) Click to listen to the podcast or search for Bean to Barstool in your favorite podcast app. ![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/2024/07/Episode-83-Clay-Gordon-Loire-quote.jpeg) ![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/2024/07/Episode-83-Clay-Gordon-Pairing-quote.jpeg) ![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/2024/07/Episode-83-Clay-Gordon-Craft-quote-Story.jpeg) Quotes from my appearance. While listening to that podcast is not *required* before watching this episode, it will frame the discussion I have with David in this episode, who, as a guest on my show, will be following my lead. --- ### **Posts About Pairing** I have written and talked about tasting and pairing often on TheChocolateLife and in episodes of PodSaveChocolate and TheChocolateLifeLIVE. Here are some highlights. [Valentine’s Day 2017 Beer and Chocolate PairingReporting back after my Valentine’s Day chocolate/beer pairing at Burp Castle on East 7th Street – making up one corner of the Brewmuda Triangle – NYC.![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/size/w256h256/2020/12/JR_Pods60x60FavIconCutoutButtons.png)The Chocolate LifeClay Gordon![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/wordpress/2020/12/c8cccf82-eaf1-42ea-923e-3da39df376c0-scaled.jpg)](https://thechocolatelife.com/valentines-day-2017-beer-and-chocolate-pairing/) [Pairing Chocolate and Cheese - and Wine and BeerChocolate and cheese can go very well together. However, I find the approach that many people use to create pairings to be too self–limiting. There is the received wisdom (akin to red wine goes with meat and white wine goes with fish). And then there is my approach, which![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/size/w256h256/2020/12/JR_Pods60x60FavIconCutoutButtons.png)The Chocolate LifeClay Gordon![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/wordpress/2020/12/SV9w9I3iE020s4O09j_q0Q.jpg)](https://thechocolatelife.com/pairing-chocolate-and-cheese-and-wine-and-beer/) ![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/2024/07/choccheesepairingboards.jpeg) A chocolate and cheese pairing board I created with Kees Raat and Betty Koster for the Origin Chocolate Event in Amsterdam in 2017\. Unfortunately, the original post is no longer online. [Judging a Chocolate Competition | #PodSaveChocolateEpisode 25 of #PodSaveChocolate features a discussion of judging chocolate awards competitions with a focus on the 2024 Craft Chocolat Challenge.![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/size/w256h256/2020/12/JR_Pods60x60FavIconCutoutButtons.png)The Chocolate LifeClay Gordon![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/2024/03/Ep-025---CCC-Judging---Featured1920x1080.jpg)](https://thechocolatelife.com/judging-a-chocolate-competition-podsavechocolate/) [Kees and Clay Make ChocolateOne of my favorite parts of attending the Origin Chocolate Event is working with Kees Raat on the final presentation, and this year marked the fourth time we’ve worked together. Each year we try to do something to one-up what we did the previous year. Last year was the![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/size/w256h256/2020/12/JR_Pods60x60FavIconCutoutButtons.png)The Chocolate LifeClay Gordon![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/wordpress/2020/12/z9Ih9cKdxEaxZctPnXATzw.jpg)](https://thechocolatelife.com/kees-and-clay-make-chocolate/) From the 2018 Origin Chocolate Event. Not a pairing, per se, but a way to think about teaching tasting chocolate under some pretty extreme circumstances. [A Night of Wine and Chocolate (2008)The Mark Hotel in Manhattan (no longer a part of the Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group, located on E 77th St.) has regularly hosted wine classes directed by Master Sommelier Richard Dean. In 2004, the program was expanded to showcase the pairing of wine and chocolate and to do so it![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/size/w256h256/2020/12/JR_Pods60x60FavIconCutoutButtons.png)The Chocolate LifeClay Gordon![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/wordpress/2020/12/image-placeholder-title-4.jpg)](https://thechocolatelife.com/a-night-of-wine-and-chocolate-2008/) A long-ago Valrhona tasting event I was a guest at that proves to be influential in my thinking to this day. --- ### **David’s Book** ![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/2024/07/PairingBeerChoolate.jpg) #### Pairing Beer & Chocolate: A Guide to Bringing the Flavors of Craft Beer and Craft Chocolate Together Pairing Beer & Chocolate is a guide to enjoying craft beer and craft chocolate together, written by the host of the popular Bean to Barstool beer and chocolate podcast. Beer and chocolate can pair beautifully together, but knowing which beer styles to pair with which types of chocolate can get confusing. Pairing Beer & Chocolate explains the basics of beer and chocolate, talks about how to taste them together, and then walks through dozens of beer styles to provide style-by-style guidance for pairing with craft chocolate. [Buy Now (Amazon Affiliate Link)](https://amzn.to/45ZX7pA?ref=thechocolatelife.com) --- ### **Other Visual Resources** As I sometimes do, I asked a generative AI (in this case two of them, Leonardo and Firefly) to render images of cocoa beans on barstools. The results speak for themselves – but I took a selection of four images from more than twenty and used them to create the composite ![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/2024/07/Default_A_pile_of_cocoa_beans_on_the_seat_of_a_barstool_with_a_0--1-.jpg) ![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/2024/07/Default_A_pile_of_cocoa_beans_on_the_seat_of_a_barstool_with_a_1FAIL.jpeg) Some generative AI fails. (Leonardo.) ![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/2024/07/Firefly-A-pile-of-cocoa-beans-on-the-seat-of-a-barstool-with-a-back--showing-the-entire-barstool-inc--2-.jpg) ![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/2024/07/Firefly-A-pile-of-cocoa-beans-on-the-seat-of-a-barstool-with-a-back--showing-the-entire-barstool-inc--1-.jpg) ![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/2024/07/Firefly-A-pile-of-cocoa-beans-on-the-seat-of-a-barstool-with-a-back--showing-the-entire-barstool-inc.jpg) More generative AI attempts. (Adobe Firefly.) --- ### **Questions?** If you have questions or want to comment, you can do so live during the episode or, if you are a ChocolateLife member, you can add them in the Comments below at ***any*** time. --- ### **Episode Hashtags and Related Accounts to Follow** #WorldChocolateDay #News #AMA #cocoa #cacao #cacau #chocolate #chocolat #craftchocolate #PodSaveChocolate #PodSaveChoc #LaVidaCocoa #TheChocolateLife BeanToBarstool [on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/beantobarstool/?ref=thechocolatelife.com) --- ### **Future Episodes** No future episodes were scheduled at the time this post was published. --- ### **#PodSaveChocolate and #TheChocolateLifeLIVE Archives** **To read an archived post** and find the links to watch archived episodes, click on one of the bookmark cards, below. [Pod Save Chocolate Calendar and ArchiveNews, views, and conversations on topics in cocoa and chocolate streamed live to YouTube, LinkedIn, and Facebook. #PodSaveChocolate!![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/size/w256h256/2020/12/JR_Pods60x60FavIconCutoutButtons.png)The Chocolate LifeClay Gordon![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/2023/11/TagImageBanner-PodSaveChocTagFinal_1920x1080-5.jpg)](https://thechocolatelife.com/pod-save-chocolate-calendar-and-archive/) [#TheChocolateLifeLIVE ArchiveNews, views, and conversations on topics in cocoa and chocolate streamed live to YouTube, LinkedIn, and Facebook.![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/size/w256h256/2020/12/JR_Pods60x60FavIconCutoutButtons.png)The Chocolate LifeClay Gordon![](https://thechocolatelife.com/content/images/2023/03/solen-feyissa-WG7v_wYZW4Q-unsplash-CalendarFeatured1920x1080.jpg)](https://thechocolatelife.com/thechocolatelife-live-calendar/) ## Not a Member? 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